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Author Topic: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...  (Read 10063 times)

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Offline icedeocampo

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2009, 10:00:16 PM »
I was thinking... if I used a D700 with a DX lens.

It will be using only the middle part of the sensor approximately 5MP.

But I have been browsing around... and I think the D700 still takes a cleaner ISO 3200 than any DX body.

Is the sensor itself different? or is it really the size?
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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2009, 10:00:16 PM »

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2009, 10:17:02 PM »
i think the size is twice as big as a dx sensor
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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2009, 10:27:38 PM »
higher end nikons don get out as often as the lower end models...so its safe to say that the D700X or what ever will not come out as early as anticipated.

If the time between the release of the D3 and the D700 (which share the same sensor) is anything to go by, then based on the release date of the D3X, the D700X (which presumably would also be sharing the sensor of the D3X in a D700 body) should be just around the corner...
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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2009, 10:30:19 PM »
If the time between the release of the D3 and the D700 (which share the same sensor) is anything to go by, then based on the release date of the D3X, the D700X (which presumably would also be sharing the sensor of the D3X in a D700 body) should be just around the corner...

and the 5dmk2 is eating up a lot of the share for that segment, its about time they release the d700x before its too late
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Offline rainmaker

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2009, 10:39:01 PM »
I was thinking... if I used a D700 with a DX lens.

It will be using only the middle part of the sensor approximately 5MP.

But I have been browsing around... and I think the D700 still takes a cleaner ISO 3200 than any DX body.

Is the sensor itself different? or is it really the size?

The DX sensor is 15.8mm x 23.6mm or 372.88 sq.mm.  The FX sensor on the D3 and D700 is 23.9mm x 36mm or  860.4 sq.mm.  So the FX sensor is more than twice the size of the DX sensor. 
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Offline icedeocampo

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2009, 11:11:20 PM »
The DX sensor is 15.8mm x 23.6mm or 372.88 sq.mm.  The FX sensor on the D3 and D700 is 23.9mm x 36mm or  860.4 sq.mm.  So the FX sensor is more than twice the size of the DX sensor. 

Yup but in crop mode, using a DX lens, that sensor size is not used.

In short... my question is

if you reduced the size of a D700 to that of a D90, would it perform the same (in high ISO shots)?

or is there something different with the way the sensors are designed...


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Offline rainmaker

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2009, 11:58:09 PM »
By using DX lenses on an FX sensor, you are already approximating how a DX sized FX design sensor would work.

This is an oversimplification but the reason why FX has better high ISO performance is primarily due to pixel size. The DX sensor and FX sensor have just about the same number of pixels.  That implies that the pixel size of the DX sensor is half the size of that of the FX sensor (which is approximately twice the size of the DX sensor).  The twice-as-large pixel size of the FX sensor allows it to gather more light per pixel. More light means less amplification which in turn leads to less noise.
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FS: 17/3.5 SL | 28/2 AI'd | 50/1.2 AI | 105/2.8 AI | 150/2.8 EX Micro | 200/4 AI-S | 70-300 VR

Offline benrubes

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2009, 12:16:19 AM »
Mas-maganda/higher reso ang D90/D300, if you are talking about vs the D700 crop mode. 12+ megapixels into DX-sized frame, vs. 5+ megapixels into a DX-sized frame for the D700. Di hamak na mas dense ang pixels ng D90, but am only referring to your query re. using both at DX frame size. Kaya some bird shooters still prefer DX over FX.

Pero hindi applicable itong comparison alone since however you slice it, the D700 is full-frame with all the advantages over cropped frame that have been already discussed before ad nauseum. Put it another way, the D90 doesn't have a switch that will allow it to shoot full-frame. At least with the D700, you can have it both ways.

Tama yung observation ni Pinoy Pao re the EOS 5 II winning over converts. Kung hindi pa ako sobrang invested sa Nikon system, I would really be tempted to switch because of this (actually I am considering, and I know several quys who took the hit of liquidating their Nikon gear). Very compelling kasi yung 21 mp, truer live view and rear lcd review, and full HD video capability at a price within striking distance of the D700--  kahit alam kong mas-maganda user interface ng Nikon, mas-better-built body at maganda sa higher ISOs yung D700 ko, mas-maganda AF, higher frame rate, etc.

Sa totoo lang, late na kasi nakarating yung Nikon sa full-frame digital party, so they still have some catching up to do. Read the D3X reviews of Thom Hogan and Ken Rockwell, and their comments show some issues with the Nikon top-of-the-line model. Sana Nikon can raise their game, kasi if the company drops the ball and they go belly-up, bagsak lahat ng presyo ng Nikon gear. If this means lower prices for the D700 in the near future, tough.

That said, ganoon talaga, bababa ang older model body prices as newer bodies with better technologies are introduced. Bullet day (balang araw), baka kumindat ka lang with your Nikon contact lens, meron ka nang 1 billion mp foto  ;D   ! So siguro enjoy na lang to the max the body you have now, or you can afford to buy. Cheers!
 


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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2009, 12:29:46 AM »
i don't think anyone needs 21mp really. 12mp is way too much memory eater na how much more a 21mp. a jpeg fine has an average of 5mb for the d700 and i think malaki na yun parang raw na nga e. but that is just me. :D

but the liveview. yes, nikon has got to have a realtime live view, thats the only thing i saw i want that is from canon.

they should have this feature soon.

Offline icedeocampo

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2009, 12:34:35 AM »
Mas-maganda/higher reso ang D90/D300, if you are talking about vs the D700 crop mode. 12+ megapixels into DX-sized frame, vs. 5+ megapixels into a DX-sized frame for the D700. Di hamak na mas dense ang pixels ng D90, but am only referring to your query re. using both at DX frame size. Kaya some bird shooters still prefer DX over FX.

Pero hindi applicable itong comparison alone since however you slice it, the D700 is full-frame with all the advantages over cropped frame that have been already discussed before ad nauseum. Put it another way, the D90 doesn't have a switch that will allow it to shoot full-frame. At least with the D700, you can have it both ways.

Tama yung observation ni Pinoy Pao re the EOS 5 II winning over converts. Kung hindi pa ako sobrang invested sa Nikon system, I would really be tempted to switch because of this (actually I am considering, and I know several quys who took the hit of liquidating their Nikon gear). Very compelling kasi yung 21 mp, truer live view and rear lcd review, and full HD video capability at a price within striking distance of the D700--  kahit alam kong mas-maganda user interface ng Nikon, mas-better-built body at maganda sa higher ISOs yung D700 ko, mas-maganda AF, higher frame rate, etc.

Sa totoo lang, late na kasi nakarating yung Nikon sa full-frame digital party, so they still have some catching up to do. Read the D3X reviews of Thom Hogan and Ken Rockwell, and their comments show some issues with the Nikon top-of-the-line model. Sana Nikon can raise their game, kasi if the company drops the ball and they go belly-up, bagsak lahat ng presyo ng Nikon gear. If this means lower prices for the D700 in the near future, tough.

That said, ganoon talaga, bababa ang older model body prices as newer bodies with better technologies are introduced. Bullet day (balang araw), baka kumindat ka lang with your Nikon contact lens, meron ka nang 1 billion mp foto  ;D   ! So siguro enjoy na lang to the max the body you have now, or you can afford to buy. Cheers!


I am not talking about a 12MP FX @ 5MP DX mode.

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Offline icedeocampo

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2009, 12:36:46 AM »
By using DX lenses on an FX sensor, you are already approximating how a DX sized FX design sensor would work.

This is an oversimplification but the reason why FX has better high ISO performance is primarily due to pixel size. The DX sensor and FX sensor have just about the same number of pixels.  That implies that the pixel size of the DX sensor is half the size of that of the FX sensor (which is approximately twice the size of the DX sensor).  The twice-as-large pixel size of the FX sensor allows it to gather more light per pixel. More light means less amplification which in turn leads to less noise.

I'll start another thread... I think this is just the conversation I am looking for...
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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2009, 09:25:06 AM »
i don't think anyone needs 21mp really.

Well, tell that to the buyers of the D3X, and all the digital medium format cameras....

Horses for courses....
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Offline likhamira

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2009, 11:48:43 AM »
Well, tell that to the buyers of the D3X, and all the digital medium format cameras....

Horses for courses....

pag medium format, i think malaki talaga megapixel because the sensor is also large right? pero pag 35mm like d700 i just think ok na 12mp or so. otherwise it eats up a lot of disk space. thus you have to buy terrabytes of harddrive again so upgrading to a higher mp camera doesn't only mean expense on the body but it automatically adds up expense on the memory storage.

thats how i see it lang.hehe. :D

but i would buy a d3x not for the higher mp but for the faster AF, better image processing, etc. if it does have those improvements compared to the d700.

OT na ba? ;D :D ;D

Offline icedeocampo

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2009, 12:21:10 PM »
I think the cost of disk space is very trivial.
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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2009, 01:33:51 PM »
i think it matters,for people who shoot a lot... :o :o :o

technology has its way of keeping up with demands...so, an 8mb RAW file may be small in 2-3 yrs' time...

when i was starting out in my career 11 years ago...256MB of ram was plenty...8mb of video ram was almost professional, and my dual p3-550 was the fastest PC that i know of here in binondo ::)

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2009, 05:06:30 PM »
i think it matters,for people who shoot a lot... :o :o :o

technology has its way of keeping up with demands...so, an 8mb RAW file may be small in 2-3 yrs' time...

when i was starting out in my career 11 years ago...256MB of ram was plenty...8mb of video ram was almost professional, and my dual p3-550 was the fastest PC that i know of here in binondo ::)
Hi-tech ka pa nga Rico, kasi my first computer was a PC AT 256 with 17.xx megahz processor, 512 Ram, paper white monitor, no Hard Disk Drive, 1 floppy 5 inch 360 mb, and 1.44 3.5 floppy...ha ha ha ha ha..I was so happy then to have that. I only run lotus 123, a data base, and games ( that needs a lot of imagination to enjoy).....well, now, I enjoy my macbook though!!!

Offline icedeocampo

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2009, 11:28:10 PM »
Hi-tech ka pa nga Rico, kasi my first computer was a PC AT 256 with 17.xx megahz processor, 512 Ram, paper white monitor, no Hard Disk Drive, 1 floppy 5 inch 360 mb, and 1.44 3.5 floppy...ha ha ha ha ha..I was so happy then to have that. I only run lotus 123, a data base, and games ( that needs a lot of imagination to enjoy).....well, now, I enjoy my macbook though!!!

I think you're talking about a PC/AT 286 (80286), and It should have 640kb ram, 384kb extended.

I started with a blistering 4.77Mhz PC/XT (8088) with a whopping 640kb (and a turbo switch which boosts the speed up to 10mhz), it also a ultra high resolution CGA card 320x240 with 2 colors :P, and the GREEN monitor :P

It sported a 2x360kb Floppy Disk Drive, and I enjoyed MS-DOS 3.1 for quite sometime :P

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Offline likhamira

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2009, 05:33:53 AM »
oy piphols OT na nga! ;D :D ;D

but that proves a point i guess that most wouldn't really want additional megapixels just for the sake of additional megapixels. it sounds nice but - do we really need it?

so back to the d700 price drop... if it really does drop price pa and no worthy upgrade within its category - id get another d700 body because its tough! Built to take abuse. :D

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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2009, 01:13:39 PM »
i think it matters,for people who shoot a lot... :o :o :o

technology has its way of keeping up with demands...so, an 8mb RAW file may be small in 2-3 yrs' time...

when i was starting out in my career 11 years ago...256MB of ram was plenty...8mb of video ram was almost professional, and my dual p3-550 was the fastest PC that i know of here in binondo ::)

PA OT nga uli :P

I looked at the price of a 1TB (1000GB) Hard Drive it's at 4800 pesos, so it's like Php4.80/Gigabyte of storage... 5 pesos per GB, you want a backup, let's get another Hard Drive 10 pesos per GB na, it's reasonably cheap.

Saving 100 Files (RAW-NEF) from a D90 just consumes 1GB, 5 pesos, and a DVD (4.7GB) costs around 6 pesos @ CDR-KING which store over 400 pictures for around 6pesos.

Next year cost for HDD storage will be at 2-3pesos per GB at which point, it's no longer trivial, it's dirt cheap.

GOING BACK ON TOPIC

At the moment I am diligently looking at alternatives (or at least within the same "reasonable" specs) to the D700, I must admit, it's on it's own at the moment. I can wait until 3rd quarter 2010, hopefully by then I'll have my FX line lenses complete.

I'll hold on to my 120k (yeah, I like CDSC units for things as exepensive as this) and pray really hard to the DSLR gods for Nikon, Canon, Sony and all the other manufactures comeup with a good prosumer camera lines.

I hope it goes down to a little under 100k. That would be a good alternative to the D300s that seems be having a debut at 96k (don't quote me on this though, it's Mang Ramon's)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 01:19:48 PM by icedeocampo »
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Re: D700, will it's price drop? Opinions needed...
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2009, 01:52:50 PM »
Sa tingin ko baba yan pero not in the near future. Even if they come up with a higher D700 model (D700s?), the price difference will not be significant. Kailangan muna nila (manufacturers) patandain yung technology para justified (sa tingin nila) yung pagbaba ng market price.

I'm not sure lang about our the situation on our end here. Like yug mga nangyari sa hidalgo. Nung lumabas yung D5000 and in-announce yung D300, diba tumaas ang price ng existing stocks ng D40 and D60? Ewan natin kung anong dahilan nila, ito naman ay obserbasyon ko lang.
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