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Author Topic: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism  (Read 4182 times)

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Offline georgegebe

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Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« on: August 28, 2014, 05:11:41 PM »
I'm not sure where to post this but it raises concern on freedom of press and photography itself.


Anti-selfie Bill

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Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« on: August 28, 2014, 05:11:41 PM »

Offline cartier-bresson

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2014, 04:11:41 PM »
The name of the bill is a misnomer, isn't it? I thought we are not allowed to take self portraits. Haha.

In some countries, the ruling is, if you can see it in public view, you can photograph it.

Yes, in my opinion this will infringe on some of our freedoms as you mentioned.

I hope this doesn't pass.

Offline cartier-bresson

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 04:15:03 PM »
Forgot to mention.

My friend's father was a photographer for the Singapore Straits Times. He once photographed a couple of drunk celebrities outside a bar, one even threw up.

Eventually the photo was printed in an issue of the publication. The celebrities sued. The Times won, because the magistrate ruled that the celebrities were in public view when their photo was taken.

Offline georgegebe

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 05:20:15 PM »
They are already talking about it in the congress if this bill needs to be reconsider or re-edited.

What I think is happening right now is that these officials that have nothing to contribute in the law are  making such non-sense rules.

Or rather having complete control of the media and communications of this country as it was during the Martial Law.

What scares me is that it might happen again. Where journalist (specially photojournalist & stringer) are always in deep trouble.

Offline carl.casequin

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2014, 01:13:55 AM »
I would agree on this new bill on the context that, the recording is done when the subject or person is on a private location e.g. inside their home, car, hotel room, hospital room etc.

I'm not a lawyer but details of the bill on the news may not be the exact way it was written/described by the lawmaker.  Hence, we might end up discussing the speculation instead of the facts. According to another interview of the lawmaker (source:GMA), the recording of the person in private space is what this new bill is all about.



According to HB 4807, the following acts are considered an intrusion into the personal privacy of another and shall be presumed to have been committed with the intent to gain or profit.

-capturing by a camera or sound recording instrument of any type of visual image, sound recording or other physical impression of the person

-trespassing on private property in order to capture any type of visual image, sound recording or other physical impression of any person

-capturing any type of visual image, sound recording or other physical impression of a person or family activity through the use of a visual or auditory enhancement device even when no physical trespass has occurred, when the visual image, sound recording or other physical impression could not have been captured without a trespass if no enhancement device was used.

Offline georgegebe

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2014, 04:52:18 PM »
From what I read and heard on TV as current discussion. It affects Freedom of Press.

As mention on ABS CBN (I think yesterday) interviewing lawyers and journalist, at first this bill looks harmless but if you look at it again this can first affect Citizen Journalism. Then it will attack journalist itself and the media. Then this bill can be abuse and use to avoid proof of evidence in court.

One example they provided is the latest incident of the police officer physically abusing the wife in a background video which an amateur video captured without consent. Using this bill will may prevent the video as proof that this cop is doing VAW (violence against women).

Also it was mention why bother creating a bill when there is already a law against about privacy. Law such as against blackmail, abusive intent to use materials for illegal financial gain and other stuff.

It seems these authors (congresspersons) of this bill seems not to have a background in law. Which we all know some of these government officials don't have law degree, background or an idea what this country's law is.

I'm no lawyer too but if you take a moment to understand this bill its definitely against the freedom of press. Its like back in the Martial Law days FM has control of the media.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 04:54:50 PM by georgegebe »

Offline VanS3n

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2014, 07:32:40 AM »
it seemed to be a big axe aimed at Press Freedom .. citizen journalism, street photography and even your journalism students and/or school papers doing their articles can get in trouble with that law

Offline Ronin-13

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2014, 12:31:50 PM »
It seems that the bill they are trying to pass is somewhat redundant to start with. By its very definition, the public domain is exactly what it is. Public.
Personal / private space in the public domain is a concept at best, what would be considered your private space in the public domain? 2 inches from your nose? At least 1 meter from your torso? I really would like to see how you would police that. But I digress

We set the rules and regulations in places we consider as our personal property i.e. inside the dwellings we own (private hospitals, malls, private schools, our own homes, inside our rooms, etc..) where we can enforce rules that we desire, e.g. no shoes on the carpet, no consumption of food in the bedrooms,………and no photography allowed. It’s by this very definition that paparazzi glamour photographers use long telephoto lens to spy into the house of celebs, no privacy you might ask?

By letter of the law, no laws are being broken by this scenario, the interior of the property are subject to the rules imposed by its owner, however the photographer is on public property, and it is not a crime to use a telephoto lens. The owner of the house could increase the height of their walls, or could acquire a restraining order against a paparazzo, etc.. But in the strictest sense of legality, there is nothing illegal with this practice, is it immoral? Most likely, but immoral and illegal does not have the same connotation. (Hence why this is still happening to celebs and the paparazzi worldwide).

The bill, though trivial to the none photography crowd does have sinister undertones to the principle of basic rights and freedom of speech. However, instead of digressing once again, I’ll just mention a couple of places and periods where bills exactly like this has been practiced and is still being observed. Nazi Germany (1939 – 1945), Stalinist Soviet Union (1922 – 1952), North Korea (1953 – present), Parts of communist China (1910 – present).

Just my 2 cents     

Offline Fox_Two

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 09:59:27 AM »
That's House Bill 4807 working for you there, authored by Rep. Rufus Rodriguez and his brother, a party list representative, Maxi Rodriguez. 

So if, say, you're a wedding photographer and you're doing a pre-nup shoot and somebody photobombed their photos, that photobomber, should he become aware that he's caught in the frame even if it was unintentional, could sue you for "invasion of privacy".  Even cops and security guards could accost you. 

So this impacts not just photojournalists or press freedom per se but street photographers, documentary photographers and the photography industry as a whole since a great deal of our work involves shooting in public places other than the confines of a studio.

To date, the bill has already made it past the first and second reading but it backfired during the third one after encountering opposition.  It was sent back to the proponents who will then likely revise it and come up with more restrictive implementing guidelines to make the case airtight and then it will be come back with a vengeance. 

Huwag kumpiyansa, let's kick some butts! KILL BILL este kill the bill.
”Your eye must see a composition or an expression that life itself offers you, and you must know with intuition when to click the camera...."  - Henri Cartier-Bresson

Offline Ronin-13

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 02:26:15 PM »
I trust that that that Rep. Rufus Rodriguez is fully aware of the repercussions of this bill, both financially and what will impose on civil liberties.

If this bill goes through, they can expect the demise of any photographic endeavour not only by the private citizens, but also businesses such as wedding photographers, travel photographers, and magazines as such, after all what assurances can they provide that absolute no other person will be in a photo shot in a country populated by 98,734,798 people? So I am guessing that they have a financial plan to compensate for these groups.

The bill will also be a precursor to the decline of civil liberties and the demise of the freedom of the press , and I am sure the international community would be very “thrilled” to see a country’s government subdue it’s citizens civil rights and the suppression of the press and media through draconian and frankly daft laws passed. We can pretty much say goodbye to any aspect of tourism in the country as “you really wouldn’t want to go to country when you can get arrested for taking a picture, would you?”.

Xyza Bacani, a rising sensation in the field of street and candid photography will probably find it odd, that the medium which is making her a household name and is making the photography world look at Filipino photographers as a force to be reckoned with being made illegal. I can personally see the passing this bill as either an intense sense of irony or a monumental act of stupidity.

Sadly, in the absence of practical lawful rules, daft and nonsensical laws get drafted, after all idle hands are the devil’s workshop.

As I mentioned previously,“ I trust that that that Rep. Rufus Rodriguez is fully aware of the repercussions of this bill”,  then again, I could be wrong. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 02:33:33 PM by Ronin-13 »

Offline Fox_Two

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2014, 12:00:37 AM »
Here's another scenario...  Say you're hungry during wee hours and decided to go to the nearest 7-11 outlet to buy something.  On your way in, you realized 2 guys wearing a helmet held the cashier at gunpoint while his lookout riding a motorcycle waited outside.  On instinct, you whip out your iPhone and snapped "candid" photos of the ongoing crime and captured the whole thing.  The crooks escaped with their loot but eventually got arrested after they were positively identified through the photos you gave the cops. 

Long story short, the crooks might get off the hook and carry on with their criminal activities because the cops had no choice but to let them go because the cellphone photos you took violated HB4807 and, therefore, is inadmissible in court as evidence because you took photos of them "without their permission." 

So para di mabasura ang kaso and para maging effective ka as a citizen journalist, puntahan mo muna yung holdaper, kalabitin mo, "Pssst... Puwede picture picture?"  Then go ahead.

Parang *toink* ano?  Hehehe!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 12:04:59 AM by Fox_Two »
”Your eye must see a composition or an expression that life itself offers you, and you must know with intuition when to click the camera...."  - Henri Cartier-Bresson

Offline pogzz505

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2014, 07:06:26 AM »
^^he he pa-sign muna ng model release..

Offline Oggy

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2014, 05:24:44 PM »
well, in the above scenario i'd still go ahead and shoot them and worry about the repercussions later..not with an iPhone but with a Glock 23 that is  >:( ;D

Offline Ronin-13

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2014, 06:55:35 PM »
Just entirely based on HB 4807 and I'll quote verbatim -capturing by a camera or sound recording instrument of any type of visual image, sound recording or other physical impression of the person and -capturing any type of visual image, sound recording or other physical impression of a person or family activity through the use of a visual or auditory enhancement device even when no physical trespass has occurred, when the visual image, sound recording or other physical impression could not have been captured without a trespass if no enhancement device was used.

So can we then sue the government for ANY CCTV images captured in public? most CCTVs are used in public as a form of deterrent or as a security measure, but since it is located in a public space  and clearly violates parts of this bill, can images captured by CCTVs used to litigate the government or institutions who use CCTVs? Just imagine the AMOUNT of people whose images are captured on a daily basis.

Homeless? need extra money? just stand in front a CCTV camera and sue! It's super easy! It's money for nothing!

 

Offline jigs10orio

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2014, 10:11:11 PM »
Dufus Rodriguez

Offline sanmiglighter

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2014, 01:03:40 PM »
Can't anybody smell the ulterior motive of this law? Hidden and veiled under the guise of "intrusion of privacy"... These politicians created this law so that if ever they are caught by civilians and journalists on camera doing something illegal or breaking the law, they can simply cite this law to nullify the evidence. Pure self-serving evil of politicians.

Offline MeljoeSD

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2014, 01:48:50 PM »

It's still more fun in the Philippines?

Offline pogzz505

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Re: Against Selfie, Street Photography and even Photojournalism
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2014, 05:43:51 PM »
Nasabi nga ito sa Fro knows photo news and sila rin nagsabi hindi dapat matuloy ito..

 

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