RE:MF tips and tricks, hyperfocal, infinity, and many more.

[Thor Lidasan]

Wear your glasses if you have bad eyes. 

hehehehe you don't even have to look at the viewfinder, Dennis if you use a wide angle lens, for example like Doc A's 28 2.8 AIS set at f/11 using either infinity focusing or hyperfocal focusing.

Just set it, aim the lens at something 7 feet away, and click the shutter.

You can even challenge the fastest AF-S lens out there and you will beat them shot to shot with acceptable sharpness and DOF using a 28mm 2.8 AIS @ f/11 using a D7000 on auto-iso to 6400.

The AF-S lens will have to turn for a millisecond to focus and take the shot while you are done already and captured the shot.

 

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[Thor Lidasan]

Yup, Doc... Infinity focusing is different from Hyperfocal focusing.

In Hyperfocal focusing, you get a deeper DOF with acceptable sharpness.

In Infinity focusing, you lose a little bit of DOF in the foreground with the same acceptable sharpness as the hyperfocal way. On a 28mm 2.8 AIS, we are talking a couple of feet in the foreground, give or take few inches.  



BTW, both methods also applies to AF lenses to maximize your DOF and acceptable sharpness. Really useful for landscape images.

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[retina]

Thanks a lot Mighty Thor!!!
I've been practicing and it is a swell thing.
Please with your indulgence from you and my fellows here, I encountered another confusion.I just want to make sure about this. When I turn my 28 to f8.0, the color is a white. I see only orange,blue , avocado and blue . What is the white's equivalent among the index color?
Thanks a lot. After this I can practice infinity and hyperfocal focusing with confidence.

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[totoybato]

I'm checking-in to this thread to learn new stuffs from the experts!

I never new that the old ways(?) of shooting (in photography) is back and is new again.

Bago na naman ang Luma! 

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[Thor Lidasan]

Thanks a lot Mighty Thor!!!
-edit-
When I turn my 28 to f8.0, the color is a white. I see only orange,blue , avocado and blue . What is the white's equivalent among the index color?
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Doc, hehehehe that's Nikon's color coding way of confusing you...

f/8, f/4, and f/2.8 numbers are painted white kasi wala siya sa distance scale... the brown one is for f/5.6 in your 28mm...

Nikon has always been making distance scales that skips aperture... pag-white wala siyang equivalent distance scale... all the way back in the 50's na tradition nila yan probably something about the design, hindi ko alam pero if you compare it sa Leica, kompleto talaga ang Leica...

here is a very old 105mm 2.5... tingnan mo, tatlo lang ang may kulay, f/8, f16, and f/22... the rest white so walang pwedeng lagyan nang infinity for hyperfocal technique for those white colored aperture numbers...



- in that case, use the "infinity focusing" technique, where you put the infinity symbol right over the focusing mark, sa 28 2.8 AIS mo, yun yung malaking black dot right in the middle, just like you did sa first posted pic mo and just aim the lens sa infinity and take the shot....

I guess Nikon is so confident about how accurate their lenses focuses to infinity with good results... ewan ... I say, tamad lang silang gawin yung style nang Leica...LOL

Meron pa nga ang Nikon na in meters lang, to really confuse yung mga photographers na sanay sa feet! hehehehe siguro Euro version yan

Nikkor-H pre-AI 50mm f/2


Tapos kung sanay ka nang tumingin in meters, they also make it in feet lang just like yung first example ko! LOL

Nikkor-H pre-AI 85mm 1.8


lastly, f/8 is usually dark green sa Nikkor sa distance scales nila, just like my first example, but sometimes f/8 can become pink! hahahaha just to make sure yung photographer is paying attention.... tingnan mo ulit yung kulay nang f/8 doon sa posted pics above... either pink or dark green...

105mm 2.5 AI:

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[estib]

Para saan yun red dot . at R sa distance scale?

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[Thor Lidasan]

Para saan yun red dot . at R sa distance scale?

Yung red dot is for infrared photography... sa film infrared photography kasi merong focus shift (back focusing) when infrared light hits the film... so you move the red dot close to the center, just a touch (guesstimate)...meaning if after focusing, yung red dot nasa kaliwa or kanan nang center focusing point...move it slightly back pabalik sa center

but that only works for film IR and specifically for Kodak IER film... discontinued na yang film na yan, actually wala nang Kodak film company...

in digital IR, may focus shift pa rin if you are using external IR filter... pero for converted IR bodies, wala siyang focus shift kasi yung IR filter nasa taas mismo nang sensor...

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[DennisP]

Right! Distance decreases from left to right.

Sa example mo, infinity symbol is on the focusing mark, and if you follow the color code for f/11, yung acceptable sharp DOF mo is from approx over 7 feet to infinity.

Test mo, take a shot at something over 7 feet without focusing and it should be in focus from approx 7 feet to infinity.

Sodes ne! Thanks for the tips Thor!  Now I know better...

Cheers!

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[retina]

Para kaming mga kindergarten na nakabuka ang bibig at namamangha sa aming natutunan, Thor.Honestly, ilang beses ko na binasa yan sa book o kaya sa internet. I can't seems to perceive it. Naintindihan ko na ngayon. May brain pa pala akong natira!!
Kaya hawak hawak ko yong 28mm ko and I am imagining how to use it before mounting it in my d7k. I remember doing my ist IE sa OB patients when I was a budding medical student. Ang tagal ko nagpractice sa cardboard na may butas , nakapikit at hinuhulaan for a thousand times.Yong first PE ko sa patient,nakuha ko ka agad. Fully dilated, totally effaced....he he he he....I am fully delighted with all the things I am learning here. How about you guys?I hope you will find it the same.

Move on!!

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[estib]

Yung red dot is for infrared photography... sa film infrared photography kasi merong focus shift (back focusing) when infrared light hits the film... so you move the red dot close to the center, just a touch (guesstimate)...meaning if after focusing, yung red dot nasa kaliwa or kanan nang center focusing point...move it slightly back pabalik sa center

but that only works for film IR and specifically for Kodak IER film... discontinued na yang film na yan, actually wala nang Kodak film company...

in digital IR, may focus shift pa rin if you are using external IR filter... pero for converted IR bodies, wala siyang focus shift kasi yung IR filter nasa taas mismo nang sensor...

Very informative, thanks!

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[rsh78ph]

Some tips and how to in lens disassembly (MF lenses);

http://k10dpentax.blogspot.com/

http://e-terati.com/?p=563

http://blog.prairierimimages.com/2011/06/micro-nikkor-55mm-f28-aperture-blade.html

http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/index-en.html  (eto panalo!!!)

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[garryuy]

Thor, ibang klase naman tong mga shots mo!!! i have a 12mm 2.0 of oly as my arrow but the indian cant use it this way haha. im desperate to learn how to use hyperfocal or zone focusing but i read in an article that you won't get the sharpness of a regular focusing technique...or is it just bec malaki ang error sa judgement sa distance?

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[garryuy]

Thor, just a question on hyper focal...you said @F11 and subject distance of 1.5ft you get a dof from 6in in front of you to infinity. Does this work with all lenses or different lenses will have different DOF? Mt reason for asking is bec when i did the same setting on my voigt, this is what i saw...@F11, subject distance of 1.5ft, my dof is from 1.3ft to 1.75ft...will post a pic of the lens in a bit...tama ba understanding ko? hehe


PA230107 by garryuy, on Flickr

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[Thor Lidasan]

Thor, just a question on hyper focal...you said @F11 and subject distance of 1.5ft you get a dof from 6in in front of you to infinity. Does this work with all lenses or different lenses will have different DOF? Mt reason for asking is bec when i did the same setting on my voigt, this is what i saw...@F11, subject distance of 1.5ft, my dof is from 1.3ft to 1.75ft...will post a pic of the lens in a bit...tama ba understanding ko? hehe

Garry, correct! On a m4/3 with 25mm @ f/11, subject distance of 1.5 - the DOF starts at 1.3 ft extending to 1.75 ft (approx of 6 inches DOF).

Some pointers:

1) DOF and hyperfocal differs with the focal length of the lens + format (medium format, 35mm - FF, 1.5x, 4/3, or m4/3) where the lens is mounted on.

2) Some examples:

a) on an m4/3 - the 25mm focal length @ f/11 has a calculated hyperfocal distance of 12.43 feet where acceptable field of focus starts at 9.95 feet to infinity. Aim at 12.5 feet (approx) @ f/11 and you have a street shooter lens that you can use for quick snaps.

b) the same focal length on a full frame, 25mm say on a Nikon D800 @ f/11 have a hyperfocal distance of 6.21 ft, meaning 1/2 of hyperfocal distance (6.2 divided by 2 = 3), or from 3 feet to infinity will have acceptable focus.

c) on a 1.5x sensor, the 25 mm @ f/11 will have a hyperfocal distance of 9.3 feet, meaning from 4.5 feet to infinity will be in focus if you set your distance mark at 9 feet and take the shot at f/11.

3) The key concept is acceptable field of focus with the sharpest point in the image is at the point where you decided to put your focus point. Say, at f/11 with a 25mm on an m4/3: you aimed your lens at an object 12 feet away, that will be the sharpest point and the plane of acceptable sharpness starts going down from 12 feet (less than/greater than 12 feet).

With at the Voigt 25mm for street shooting/zone focusing, its good to remember the hyperfocal distances at f/8, f/11, and f/16:

f/8 aim at 17 feet ( 8.77 feet to infinity in focus)
f/11 aim at 12.4 feet ( 7.3 feet to infinity in focus)
f/16 aim at 8.5 feet (5.79 feet to infinity in focus)

Calculating for distances is an acquired skill and practice makes perfect. I sometimes use my height, 5' 8" as a measuring tool. I would look down at the ground knowing it would be approx 5' 8" and then I would quickly look at the subject mentally calculating the distance using what I saw at the ground as point of comparison.


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[garryuy]

Thor, just a question on hyper focal...you said @F11 and subject distance of 1.5ft you get a dof from 6in in front of you to infinity. Does this work with all lenses or different lenses will have different DOF? Mt reason for asking is bec when i did the same setting on my voigt, this is what i saw...@F11, subject distance of 1.5ft, my dof is from 1.3ft to 1.75ft...will post a pic of the lens in a bit...tama ba understanding ko? hehe

Garry, correct! On a m4/3 with 25mm @ f/11, subject distance of 1.5 - the DOF starts at 1.3 ft extending to 1.75 ft (approx of 6 inches DOF).

Some pointers:

1) DOF and hyperfocal differs with the focal length of the lens + format (medium format, 35mm - FF, 1.5x, 4/3, or m4/3) where the lens is mounted on.

2) Some examples:

a) on an m4/3 - the 25mm focal length @ f/11 has a calculated hyperfocal distance of 12.43 feet where acceptable field of focus starts at 9.95 feet to infinity. Aim at 12.5 feet (approx) @ f/11 and you have a street shooter lens that you can use for quick snaps.

b) the same focal length on a full frame, 25mm say on a Nikon D800 @ f/11 have a hyperfocal distance of 6.21 ft, meaning 1/2 of hyperfocal distance (6.2 divided by 2 = 3), or from 3 feet to infinity will have acceptable focus.

c) on a 1.5x sensor, the 25 mm @ f/11 will have a hyperfocal distance of 9.3 feet, meaning from 4.5 feet to infinity will be in focus if you set your distance mark at 9 feet and take the shot at f/11.

3) The key concept is acceptable field of focus with the sharpest point in the image is at the point where you decided to put your focus point. Say, at f/11 with a 25mm on an m4/3: you aimed your lens at an object 12 feet away, that will be the sharpest point and the plane of acceptable sharpness starts going down from 12 feet (less than/greater than 12 feet).

With at the Voigt 25mm for street shooting/zone focusing, its good to remember the hyperfocal distances at f/8, f/11, and f/16:

f/8 aim at 17 feet ( 8.77 feet to infinity in focus)
f/11 aim at 12.4 feet ( 7.3 feet to infinity in focus)
f/16 aim at 8.5 feet (5.79 feet to infinity in focus)

Calculating for distances is an acquired skill and practice makes perfect. I sometimes use my height, 5' 8" as a measuring tool. I would look down at the ground knowing it would be approx 5' 8" and then I would quickly look at the subject mentally calculating the distance using what I saw at the ground as point of comparison.


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Thanks for in-depth explanation Thor! The figures will be very helpful to me. May i ask how you were able to calculate the aiming distance? using the pic of the voigt i posted, @F11, if i put the infinity sign on the right side @f11, the left side F11 says around 6.5ft or something...meaning the zone is 6.5ft to infinity, is that right? if so, why should i aim at 12.4ft (7.3ft to infinity in focus)?
this is what i see in my voigt:
F8 (around 7.5 ft to infinity)
F11 (around 6.5ft to infinity)
F16 (around 4ft to infinity)
i derived this by putting the infinity value on the respective aperture. If these are correct, how to i get the aiming distance? and why are my values diff than yours?

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[retina]

Kailangan ng graphics explanation to Thor.There is a difference between infinity and hyperfocal focusing , right Thor? I think we have to proceed to this thread para mas maganda. Some graphics are already there.
So that we won't be repeating things again and again. See you Garry and Thor there.

http://www.pinoyphotography.org/forum/index.php?topic=91705.0

If I will have the time I will pluck those topics and merge it there.

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[garryuy]

Thor, Retina, pwede po bang makiusap na magamit as reference yung picture ko ng voigt which i posted earlier? it seems that the markings on the voigt are not the same as other manual lenses i see in the other thread. salamat po!

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[Thor Lidasan]

Thor, Retina, pwede po bang makiusap na magamit as reference yung picture ko ng voigt which i posted earlier? it seems that the markings on the voigt are not the same as other manual lenses i see in the other thread. salamat po!

Garry, I'll post in the other thread but for now let me clarify some points:

1) My numbers are from my iPhone app, DOF calculator. I have it in my iPhone for quick reference when I am on the field. They might look different as compared to the one on lens but they are accurate as I can change the parameters to inch and mm for macro work.

2) As Doc A pointed out, there 2 ways to use the markings on the lens for focusing - a) Hyperfocal focusing b) Infinity focusing. I pointed out the differences between the 2 on my posts on the other thread. It depends on you which method you will use. As you experienced already, the difference is where you put the infinity symbol and if you forget which method you are using, then the calculation will be different.

3) Rest assured, 'pre, your Voigt is not different from other lens. The markings is similar to how Leica does it:

Leica Noctilux 50mm 0.95



Leica 35mm 1.4



Voigtlander 25mm 0.95



I'll post later sa kabilang thread.

_

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[Thor Lidasan]

Let me add also, that there is a 3rd way to use the markings on the lens. It is called "Zone Focusing" mostly used for street photography.

To repeat then, the markings on the lens can be used in the following:

1) Infinity focusing - set the desired aperture (say f/8), set the infinity symbol on the focus point on the lens, then read the distances as per my post in the other thread.

2) Hyperfocal focusing - set the desired aperture, set the infinity symbol on the desired aperture value, then read the distances.

3) Zone focusing - this takes practice as you create a zone of focus within a set of distance using the focusing scale and the aperture. Say, at f/8, you set a zone of focus from 3 feet - 10 feet using a particular lens that is capable of doing so, best for this kind of work are the wide angles, 28mm to 35mm lenses. For an m4/3, you need to go wider, say a 14mm or 17mm lens.

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[garryuy]

Thanks Thor! you absolutely hit the bullseye by explaining the 3 types of focusing bec i may have already intertwined them all together. haha. i shall be following the other thread to get myself educated by you , retina and others who wish to join. Thanks again for the patience.

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