Author Topic: DSLR vs DSLR-Like (Read 2232 times)

whiteboy · « **on:** February 04, 2009, 07:49:47 AM »

any opinions? canon has released its sx10 and nikon will be releasing coolpix p90 soon. how do you compare those 2 to dslrs? maybe compared to entry level dslrs like d40,d60,450d. and maybe for some with no intention to upgrade on lenses.

http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/nikon_coolpix_p90/

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1221624100.html

thanks

jovijovijovi · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2009, 08:51:08 AM »

I think this is a common misconception about cameras that megapixels is the basis of image quality. Many of my friends would compare point and shoot cameras to dslrs by way of megapixels. Example: the 30d only has 8 megapixels when this new camera (P&S) from sony or what has 12.1 megapixels! the sony point and shot can also adjust settings etc etc. Even cellphones now have 5 megapixel cameras or more.

What we should take note of is the sensor size and not just the megapixels. The actual physical sensor size matters as the smaller the sensor (like in cellphone cams which are normally less than a pinky nail in size), the more pixels are packed in each particle of the sensor. This makes the image quality suffer. On the otherhand, the dslr with the bigger sensor will have less megapixels packed into the sensor particles and thus be able to save more detail from the image.

just my thoughts.

danding · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2009, 09:19:49 AM »

very good point. that's the very big difference between slr and p&s aside from the dslr user changing the lens.

whiteboy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2009, 09:30:13 AM »

keep them thoughts coming. id like to learn from the masters

pitbull · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2009, 11:23:35 AM »

i was in the same dillema once. things that a PS cant do that a DSLR can:
(from my point of view)

great bokeh from great lens
fast continuous shots for sports
creative use of speedlights
ano pa ba?

but a PS like the p90 can really be very handy if you were shooting news where getting the picture is all that counts! magaan,maliit at mura

js · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2009, 11:28:23 AM »

I believe it depends on your preference.

in terms of quality, DSLR is still the king. but in my opinion, other factors come into play:

i.e. size, budget and as you mentioned, are you going to replace the lens eventually.

both my wife and I are very particular with image quality, but unfortunately for her, she can't bring her camera to a dinner out with friends, travel, impromptu gathering or what not.

thus she decided to get a high end compact camera instead - a canon G10.

while it is not a DSLR, it is a veery good camera, medyo DSLRish na siya minus the expandability. In all honesty, if I were to buy a low end camera like d40, 450d and i dont plan to change the lens or use it as a hobby, i'd rather get a g10 which is cheaper, lighter and pocketable which i can bring anywhere to get decent photos.

it depends on what your uses are, but i appreciate the mid variant

(more on the g10, rather than the sx10 as i have the impression that they are more on ultra zooms as per my history with my s3is)

or mabe its just me since I have a 50d which i can take where and when i want if I can bring a big bag. haha! HTH!

Jargon · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2009, 12:02:27 PM »

Note also that f/2.8 on a compact camera's small lens and small sensor is not the same as f/2.8 on a DSLR camera's big lens and big sensor. Years before I bought my first DSLR camera, I had been using a DSLR-like advanced compact camera capable of f/2.8 aperture. But I could never get that camera to produce the same bokeh as a DSLR camera could. And with its small sensor, the compact camera couldn't perform well in low light conditions. Moreover, its contrast-based autofocus couldn't match the speed of a DSLR camera's autofocus.

LittleTotoy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2009, 06:17:53 PM »

The way I see it size is the only issue.

If size is of utmost importance, then go for the 'serious compacts' - otherwise, just get a DSLR.

You might get "just" an 18-55 lens for the same price as a compact with a whopping 20x lens, but the flexibility and image quality is more than worth it.

Though some compacts offer RAW capabilities - coming from an LX3 owner - image quality simply does not compare to DSLR's and their larger sensors.

There might be 'near'-exceptions such as the Sigma DP1 or the Sony R1 - but then those are or were pretty much priced above entry-level DSLR's.

And also - as previously posted, DOF and bokeh are not the same. f/2.8 on a compact is probably more like f/8 or so on a DSLR.

Cheers.

JRRodriguezIV · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2009, 10:12:40 PM »

Actually, the Canon G10 costs aroudn 35k, and a Nikon D60 with 18-55mm lens costs the same. If you're on a budget, the Nikon D40 with kit lens costs less than 20k.

No way on earth will the G10 ever beat the D60, so you're not paying for the quality, but the SIZE.

Don't get me wrong, the G10 delivers fantastic photos, but after all the time I've been using SLR's, never have I ever considered pulling out my compact slr-like, because I'll just feel bad that I didn't capture the moment with a better camera.

ninen · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2009, 11:45:29 PM »

hello. im a prosumer camera user

let me share my thoughts when i bought my camera.

1st. of course, size and weight matters. im gonna bring this camera to work (office and field). the nature of my work is sort-of like this, im sitting quietly in my office, then an hour later, im being asked to board the next flight out of manila to who-knows-where. so size and weight are really my 1st concern.

2nd. the lens, i want a "One fixed but versatile lens". in the field, i don't want the hassle of having to change lenses always just to get a particular shot. versatility is the key here.

3rd. i could have gotten a very compact P&S instead of choosing a slightly bulkier prosumer/bridge camera. it's because i also want it to be slightly on par with an entry level DSLR. as the title goes, "DSLR-like". i know that im gonna be addicted to photography anyways, so i bought a type of camera that also has some SLR capabilities (manual exposure control).

4th. we already have a DSLR in the house (my sister is using it), so if ever i feel the need to shoot with a DSLR, ill just borrow from her. hehe

ninen · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2009, 12:05:43 AM »

i also would like to share some photos from my sony H50. some photos are from my old H2.

(H2)

(H50)

i'd like to share some photo of my prosumer cameras.
(shot using my n95)

my new toy

my old but trusty H2.

Ripantnow · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2009, 12:16:15 AM »

SLR pa rin mga bro. wag natin kalimutan na ang SLR ay di pa rin talaga maco-compare sa point and shoot cam kahit pa sa high end point and shoot ngayon. try to use 400 ISO sa point and shoot ngayon at compare nyo sa nikon D40 kung sino panalo

ninen · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2009, 12:09:28 PM »

well....at the end of the day, it really boils down to what the user needs...DSLR and DSLR-like will always have some advantages/disadvantages over each other. its up to the buyer to choose.

so to the topic starter, whatever floats your boat man.

just go get what you think you'll benefit more from. and hey, that canon sx10is is a really good prosumer cam. the sx1is is also out in the market now, try to look at it too. the sx10 and sx1 were some of my choices too when i was shopping for my next camera. but having been using sony for 2 years now, i chose the h50 coz im already used to the h-series' user interface. i just didn't feel the need to switch brand anymore hehe

flxrms · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2009, 12:45:51 PM »

for still life, landscape and macro a P&S or DSLR-like is acceptable na since shutter lag is no issue with that..but when it comes to shooting people and you want the image to pop out..its hard to capture that using a P&S...

dean · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2009, 01:41:14 PM »

35k na ba ang G10? parang ang mahal ah... last time alam ko nasa 25k (low) to 31k (high) siya.

for portability and convenience, go for the P&S talaga. personally, i'd go for the G10 over the SX series of canon. mas madali ilagay sa pocket and i like its looks better than the SX series.

ninen · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2009, 09:45:06 PM »

i know it's quite overrated already, but here's an "indian-pana" thingy example --> http://www.pinoyphotography.org/forum/index.php?topic=43582.0;topicseen

js · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:18:54 AM »

Quote from: dean on February 05, 2009, 01:41:14 PM

35k na ba ang G10? parang ang mahal ah... last time alam ko nasa 25k (low) to 31k (high) siya.

for portability and convenience, go for the P&S talaga. personally, i'd go for the G10 over the SX series of canon. mas madali ilagay sa pocket and i like its looks better than the SX series.

i got it bnew at 22t with warranty. just not here. (1 year naman so no biggie)

djoverdose · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:52:19 AM »

wow... this is a nice thread.... good conversation too....

i like to share my expirience with dslr-like and dslr... before i started out with canon S3is... yup likewise i wanted to have a dslr but back in the days i have a tight budget or should i say my parents.... it was a graduation gift for me. so before buying it i searched the net and also asked opinions here to what should i look for etc.... ive learned alot.... so with regards with the quality of the dslr-like cam that i had, i can say the the image are really good plus having a 12x zoom lens was really a plus for me.... but after 2 years i said to my self that i had grown this camera and i want something new. so i purchased a canon 450d... when i laid my hands on this it really change my point of view about cameras.... the speed, the quality, the controls and flexibilty are no where near the s3is...

the s3is has F2.7 but it cant produce a good bokeh compared to a kitlens that has a F3.5... the ISO is by far better.... in my s3 the only usable ISO value for me was 400 and its like an ISO 800 in my 450d... plus with a dslr just slap a new lens and its like you have a new camera because you have to master it again because of the added lens...

this is my point of view between a P&S and a dslr.... give and take after a few years both these cam will be obsolete or old... but with a dslr after a few years buy a new lens or a new flash, that old camera will come to life again. unlike with a point and shoot you are stuck with its functions....

just my two cents...

RetroManila · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:59:50 AM »

In my pseudo camera bag, I have a d80, its lenses, and a Sony Cybershot. There some instances that it's more fun to use that dependable point&shoot than the bulky dslr.

seed_mode · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2009, 07:26:02 AM »

Quote from: RetroManila on March 25, 2009, 02:59:50 AM

In my pseudo camera bag, I have a d80, its lenses, and a Sony Cybershot. There some instances that it's more fun to use that dependable point&shoot than the bulky dslr.

I agree, especially when going the stealth approach in Street Photography, it's hard not to be noticed with a big camera, but with a compact they (candid subjects) will not notice as much. But then again when shooting events (na permitted ako to shoot), having a big camera with big lenses gives me that +100000 pugi points feeling.

archaznable · « **Reply #20 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:32:16 PM »

from a Bokeh point of view hehehe ... I experienced this when I had a Sony DSC-H7 Cybershot when you focus on a subject the bokeh isn't as nice as the DSLR. I also notice this when I have a Canon 400D mas pulido yung pag ka bokeh niya compare sa Sony DSC-H7.

RetroManila · « **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:10:30 PM »

Quote from: archaznable on March 25, 2009, 12:32:16 PM

from a Bokeh point of view hehehe ... I experienced this when I had a Sony DSC-H7 Cybershot when you focus on a subject the bokeh isn't as nice as the DSLR. I also notice this when I have a Canon 400D mas pulido yung pag ka bokeh niya compare sa Sony DSC-H7.

Hmmm but DoF and getting those nice bokehs are so so much easier using an Ixus.

ZD5 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:30:12 PM »

Quote from: RetroManila on March 25, 2009, 03:10:30 PM

Hmmm but DoF and getting those nice bokehs are so so much easier using an Ixus.

I don't think the bokeh of an F/1.4 cna be achieved by any Prosumer P&S...

comarx17 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2009, 11:30:36 PM »

Quote from: ZD5 on March 25, 2009, 03:30:12 PM

I don't think the bokeh of an F/1.4 can be achieved by any Prosumer P&S...

Of course the max aperture of Canon Ixus P&S cameras are f2.8 and as we now as it becomes wider the DOF and Bokeh becomes better.

ZD5 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2009, 12:33:47 AM »

Quote from: comarx17 on March 25, 2009, 11:30:36 PM

Of course the max aperture of Canon Ixus P&S cameras are f2.8 and as we now as it becomes wider the DOF and Bokeh becomes better.

Even the F/2.8 of the Ixus P&S cameras cannot match the F/2.8 of DSLRs. It's not the opening, it's the size of the sensor.

briboinks · « **Reply #25 on:** March 26, 2009, 02:16:33 AM »

heres an example shot using my ixus700. cant find my old files which is a portrait shot.

RetroManila · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2009, 02:22:59 AM »

Quote from: ZD5 on March 26, 2009, 12:33:47 AM

Even the F/2.8 of the Ixus P&S cameras cannot match the F/2.8 of DSLRs. It's not the opening, it's the size of the sensor.

This I understand. But my point wasn't about which camera's better. No point in doing that. It's like putting a grade schooler against a college dude. I was talking about the ease of use of the P&S cameras. Sure, the bokehs are nicer with a dslr, but I am amazed at how simple it is with an Ixus.

jovijovijovi · « **Reply #27 on:** March 27, 2009, 02:39:01 PM »

I have both the H2 and DSLR and I have to say sa IQ and sa bokeh super bugbog yung H2. The sensor really matters. I'd rather have a small dslr with kit lens than an all around point and shoot or prosumer cam. just my feeling.

The point and shoot is probably easier to use but as you develop into the hobby/field you eventually search for more control and for more power (IQ, ISO sensitivity, etc)

A dslr is harder to use but more fulfilling and satisfactory.

ZD5 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2009, 03:10:08 PM »

Quote from: RetroManila on March 26, 2009, 02:22:59 AM

This I understand. But my point wasn't about which camera's better. No point in doing that. It's like putting a grade schooler against a college dude. I was talking about the ease of use of the P&S cameras. Sure, the bokehs are nicer with a dslr, but I am amazed at how simple it is with an Ixus.

I see... The ease of use, I agree with you...

I was a point and shooter before (Canon A80), but once you get serious with this hobby, you'll easily outgrow your P&S and look for a better output and features.

OSORIO · « **Reply #29 on:** March 29, 2009, 02:36:15 PM »

tama. sa sensor not megapix.

greenfield54 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 29, 2009, 08:16:03 PM »

Quote from: jovijovijovi on February 04, 2009, 08:51:08 AM

I think this is a common misconception about cameras that megapixels is the basis of image quality.

What we should take note of is the sensor size and not just the megapixels. The actual physical sensor size matters as the smaller the sensor (like in cellphone cams which are normally less than a pinky nail in size), the more pixels are packed in each particle of the sensor. This makes the image quality suffer.

just my thoughts.

I agree. And the manufacturer knows this. But they are stuck with the megapixel thing. Cramming more and more pixels in a smaller sensor. But if they don't do it, no cameras will be sold. That's now the full frame fx is being revived so more pixels can be crammed into the larger fx frame.

greenfield54 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 30, 2009, 07:08:07 PM »

I have been a film slr user since the 70's. But I was introduced to digital with a Canon Powershot AS470. Then came my D40. Obviously the images are better with the DSLR. Now. The reason that I kept my P/S (use it more than the D40) is for convenience and portability. I like the live view and video function. If they can cram all the features of the DSLR into the size of the average P/S more of this type would be sold I guess. But this is just wishful thinking and at present a technological impossibilty. Recent models of the DSLR have adopted the live view and video function minus the screen articulation. This is a positive first step I suppose. Later models would be less bulky and more user friendly.

ronsan13 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 03, 2009, 11:20:20 AM »

i'd still prefer DSLR. pero kung tight budget, wla nman mali sa DSLR like. Cheaper and mas flexible ka khet pano. for starters i think ok din nman ang DSLR like.. i had a dilemma kse almost same price lang un DSLR like with my gear.. obviously i chose the DSLR khet entry level model.

Jargon · « **Reply #33 on:** April 03, 2009, 12:07:27 PM »

Quote from: ronsan13 on April 03, 2009, 11:20:20 AM

i'd still prefer DSLR. pero kung tight budget, wla nman mali sa DSLR like. Cheaper and mas flexible ka khet pano. for starters i think ok din nman ang DSLR like.. i had a dilemma kse almost same price lang un DSLR like with my gear.. obviously i chose the DSLR khet entry level model.

Bawal po text speak dito. Have you read the forum rules?

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